This is a conversation I had with a nurse and Doctor from the CDC. I have removed their names from the conversation. You know from reading my paper how I feel about vaccinations but this doctor did not. I wish he could have convinced me vaccines were safe and that I was wrong but as you will see he couldn't.
Questions
You state that a pregnant woman is at risk for the flu, are you saying she should get a flu shot?
Name
Wendy Callahan
Yes, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP) states that influenza vaccine is indicated for women who will be in their 2nd or 3rd trimester of pregnancy during influenza season.
The ACIP statement is available on the web at the following address:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/rr/rr5004.pdf
The adult immunization schedule is available at:
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/recs/adult-schedule.pdf
National Immunization Program
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Nurse,
I'm sorry to be such a stickler on this but are you sure this is something the CDC recommends for pregnant women? I found on WWW.CDC.GOV/NIP/VACSAFE/CONCERNS/THIMEROSAL/THIMEROSAL.HTM
A great deal of information regarding mercury and since the influenza vaccine does contain mercury I am so surprised that this would be indicated for a pregnant woman. What confuses me is this excerpt from the CDC's own website:
Two groups are most vulnerable to methyl mercury: the fetus and pregnant women. Premature babies are more vulnerable because they tend to be very small and their brain is not as developed as a full term baby. The nervous system is very sensitive to all forms of mercury. Methyl mercury and metal vapors are more harmful than other forms, because more mercury in these forms reaches the brain. Exposure to high levels of metallic, inorganic, or organic mercury can permanently damage the brain, kidneys, and developing fetus. Effects on brain functioning may result in irritability, shyness, tremors, changes in vision or hearing, and memory problems. Short-term exposure to high levels of metallic mercury vapors may cause effects including lung damage, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, increases in blood pressure or heart rate, skin rashes, and eye irritation. It is important to remember that there is a significant safety margin incorporated into all acceptable mercury exposure limits.
Can you tell me the amount of mercury in the vaccine as well as how much the average women already may carry in their body and allow me to see the safety margin so that I can judge for myself as to whether or not I will have a flu vaccine? I hope this is not too much to ask. Thanking you in advance, Wendy
Not sure if we answered your question, but the best information that we have suggests the risk of mecury toxicity from one dose of influenza vaccine is negligible,compared to the real risk of complications of influenza to a pregnant woman. As published in our Nov. 5, 1999 MMWR, available
at http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4843a4.htm
"All influenza vaccines contain thimerosal; however, ACIP recommends no changes in the influenza vaccination guidelines, including those for children and pregnant women (6). Evidence suggests that children with certain medical conditions (e.g., cardiopulmonary disease, including asthma) are at substantially increased risk for complications of influenza(7,8). During the influenza season, rates of cardiopulmonary hospitalizations for otherwise healthy women in their second or third trimester of pregnancy are similar to that among persons aged greater than or equal to 65 years who do not have a chronic medical illness and for whom influenza vaccination is also recommended (9). Pregnant women with chronic medical conditions are at higher risk and have a hospitalization rate more than two times greater than among pregnant women without other high-risk medical conditions. A substantial safety margin has been incorporated into the health guidance values for organic mercury exposure developed by the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry and other agencies (10). ACIP concluded that the benefits of influenza vaccine outweigh the potential risks for thimerosal."
The references cited above are
· CDC. Prevention and control of influenza: recommendations · CDC. Prevention
and control of influenza: recommendations of the Advisory Committee on Immunization
Practices (ACIP). MMWR 1999;48(no. RR-4):1-28.
· Mullooly JP, Barker WH. Impact of type A influenza on children: a retrospective study. Am J Public Health 1982;72:1008-16.
· Glezen WP, Taber LH, Frank AL, Gruber WC, Piedra PA. Influenza virus infections in infants. Pediatr Infect Dis J 1997;16:1065-8.
· Neuzil KM, Reed GW, Mitchel EF, Simonsen L, Griffin MR. Impact of influenza on acute cardiopulmonary hospitalizations in pregnant women. Am J Epidemiol 1998;148:1094-102.
· Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry. Toxicological profile for mercury. Atlanta, Georgia: Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, 1999.
There are 25 micrograms of ethylmercury in one dose of influenza vaccine, and the acceptable daily exposure limit, based on methy mercury, is between 0.1 and 0.4 micrograms, per kilogram of body weight. So a 50 kilogram woman (about 110 pounds) could receive at least 5 micrograms per day using the lower bounded guideline. However, a 6 ounce can of tuna fish contains on average 17 micrograms of mercury, so the exposures are not uncommon. The American Academy of Pediatrics noted:
The primary purpose of the guidelines is to prevent exposure of women of childbearing age to amounts of mercury that might be toxic to the rapidly developing brain of the fetus, which is much more susceptible to toxicity than is the adult brain.9 The specific window of highest susceptibility is not known, but exposure after birth should be associated with less toxicity than in utero exposure. The federal guidelines for mercury exposure are based on extrapolations from blood and/or hair concentrations of mercury in pregnant women after inadvertent exposures to high concentrations of methyl mercury from consumption of contaminated grain or fish. The mercury concentrations in blood or hair from exposed women were used to estimate maximum daily oral intakes of methyl mercury during pregnancy that were not associated with measurable adverse outcomes in their children. In earlier studies, blood levels of 100 to 200 micrograms of mercury per liter in pregnant women were not associated with detectable abnormalities in the children exposed in utero.13-15 Some recent data suggest that exposure in utero to mercury at levels previously thought to be safe may have subtle adverse effects on the developing brain.20 Additional studies are ongoing as data are limited with regard to the effects of low dose or intermittent exposures.21,22 The federal guidelines were not designed for intermittent or bolus exposures." You can read their comments in more detail at
http://www.aap.org/policy/re9935.html
M.D.
Training and Education Branch
Immunization Services Division
National Immunization Program, MS E-52
Atlanta, GA 30333
Dear Dr.
I appreciate you taking the time to write me. I will not be taking a flu vaccine based on your recommendations. I had no idea that much ethyl mercury was in a vaccine. I read 35 micrograms of ethyl mercury can kill small rabbit just imagine a developing fetus. I had no idea mercury was in grain, the combination of a tuna lunch and a flu shot could be the death or brain damage of my precious developing baby. It’s a good thing I have decided not to vaccinate my baby once it arrives can you imagine if I did? Mercury from my body then mercury from childhood vaccines, frightening. I'm glad there were no detectable abnormalities in babies born to mercury-exposed mothers. How long were these children followed? Thank you so much for your time and thanks again for saving at least one baby from mercury damage.
Sincerely,
Wendy Callahan
I think you overestimate the risk. We still believe that there is more risk from influenza to pregnant women then the theoretical concerns about mercury in vaccines,. Let me be clear: I and our program still recommend influenza vaccination of pregnant women who will be in the second or third trimester during influenza season (November through March) Pregnant women regardless of health status, have a clearly increased risk of hospitalization from influenza-related illnesses, compared to similar non-pregnant women. The children were followed out to about 5-6 years of age in some cases. However, you of course should make this decision for yourself and this child.
, M.D.
Training and Education Branch
Immunization Services Division
National Immunization Program, MS E-52
Atlanta, GA 30333
tel. 404-639-8813
fax 404-639-8828
Dear DR ,
I guess I really did misunderstand the message you had intended to convey regarding flu vaccines. Let me clarify a few points for you of what made me assume you were warning me of the dangers rather minimizing the risks.
From your website:
- Two groups are most vulnerable to methyl mercury: the fetus and pregnant women.
- The nervous system is very sensitive to all forms of mercury. Methyl mercury and metal vapors are more harmful than other forms, because more mercury in these forms reaches the brain.
- There are 25 micrograms of ethyl mercury in one dose of influenza vaccine, and the acceptable daily exposure limit, for a 50 kilogram woman (about 110 pounds) could receive at least 5 micrograms per day using the lower bounded guideline.
- The primary purpose of the guidelines is to prevent exposure of women of childbearing age to amounts of mercury that might be toxic to the rapidly developing brain of the fetus, which is much more susceptible to toxicity than is the adult brain.
- Some recent data suggest that exposure in utero to mercury at levels previously thought to be safe may have subtle adverse effects on the developing brain.
6. “The federal guidelines were not designed for intermittent or bolus exposures."
This really scared me, isn’t a bolus exposure exactly what we are discussing? And there are no federal guidelines?
7. The specific window of highest susceptibility is not known.
Does this not raise a red flag at all?
8. Additional studies are ongoing as data are limited with regard to the effects of low dose intermittent exposures.
Why don't you wait until the studies are complete before you recommend having a flu shot to pregnant mothers or are they the unknowing participants in the study?
So you see how I may have misunderstood you and your intent, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but I see that is not the case. Yes, I am so glad this is a free country and I can make these decisions for myself and my child, relying on the government to help with medical decisions is clearly not in its peoples best interest.
You correctly point out the uncertainties in the data about mercury exposure. Our interpretation is that there are theoretical concerns about the level of mercury exposure in vaccines, with the toxic level though to be much higher than the threshold levels recommended by different agencies. Mercury is excreted from the body over time as well, and does not accumulate in the absence of continued ingestion. The tuna fish analogy was to point out that many people ingest mercury from such sources, yet we don't appear to have any toxic problems from those ingestions.There is a real and documented risk from influenza to pregnant women, ot theoretical. We recommend one 25 ug mercury exposure during pregnancy, to avoid this risk. As you point out, you can choose between these theoretical concerns and the real (albeit small) risk of influenza complications during pregnancy.We are not "doing a study" of the effects of influenza vaccine on pregnant women, but recommending the best available preventive measure for a health risk for them. Again, you can choose to do as you wish, but I would suggest discussing these issues with your doctors.
Good luck with your child.
, M.D.
Training and Education Branch
Immunization Services Division
National Immunization Program, MS E-52
Atlanta, GA 30333
tel. 404-639-8813
Dear Doctor,
I have consulted with my Doctor. When I was pregnant with my daughter I had the flu or some kind of cold for five months of the pregnancy and even had a chest x-ray to rule out Pneumonia. Thank goodness my Doctor didn’t recommend a flu shot because I probably would have listened. Now that I have been researching flu shots and their contents, theoretical or not it makes no sense to inject mercury into a developing fetus. Have we forgotten our thalidomide lessons? You mentioned mercury does not accumulate in the body and gets excreted over time, how exactly is this done and how much time is involved? You also mentioned mercury can be tested in hair samples, please don’t tell me this is how it exits the body. Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t there several hundred flu strains? How can you tell if your vaccine is for the right one? What is the probability you vaccinate for the correct strain? How do you decide which flu strain will be the one you use for that period between November and March? I hope the formula you use to decide this is not theoretical!
I’m so glad the pregnant population is not involved in a study on the benefits of the flu shot and hopefully like with me, they are not routinely recommended. What happen to getting enough rest and eating right, not smoking or drinking and taking prenatal vitamins as the ‘best preventive measure”? And when you mention “we don't appear to have any toxic problems from those ingestions” I look around at the three huge hospitals that each cover four city blocks in a small town like Gainesville that seem to be constantly under construction adding new buildings with emergency room waits measured in hours and wonder why are there so many sick people?
Hmmm…..Looking forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Wendy Callahan
You can learn more about influenza at this part of our website:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/flu/fluvirus.htm
Should you have more questions, please let me know.
Dear Doctor,
No wonder you didn’t want to answer my questions directly. Deciding on which strain or city to find the strain from looks more like a coin toss then actual science. I see this year you have decided on Moscow, New Caledonia, and Sichuan. I’m sure these will be as good of choices as any. I was surprised to read you must make this choice 9 to 10 months ahead of time so it’s a lot like a prediction or a theory- kind of like the mercury theory. So let me see your advocating a flu shot every year, 25 micrograms at each shot, risking mercury damage for what? A guess… a theory? I read GBS was reported with the swine flu vaccine. I wonder if those few people wish they hadn’t had the vaccine. Two in a million can really add up when you are targeting the entire population. I guess with anything clearly as important as a flu shot, a few sacrificial lambs are well worth the good of the nation. The only problem is where do you draw the line? I couldn’t believe you recommended this to children over 6 months in combination with their other childhood vaccines. Has anyone added up the mercury total there?
I also read antibodies aren’t maintained after a year are you sure this is even working? From what I have read I’m not impressed. Way too much danger- not enough safety. No wonder it has to be advertised, it needs hype. I’m not sure Doctor, how you can put your head on the pillow at night to sleep. Isn’t it still “first do no harm?”
Sincerely,
Wendy
Please see below; you have your point of view and I have mine. I understand your concern, but mercury risk from vaccines remains a theoretical concern, because to date there are no data proving injury to anyone from mercury in vaccines. You seem to have made up your mind about these issues, but I will remind you of a few facts below, and, once your child is born, there is no mercury beyond trace amounts, in the vaccines routinely recommended for children. I trust that you will reconsider these issues when it is time to choose to vaccinate or not vaccinate your child. Yes, and in 9/10 years, the vaccine strains selected match the circulating wild virus very well. Influenza vaccine at present is recommended for children with high risk conditions, not all children, even though all children <3 years of age have very high rates of hospitalization related to influenza, as compared to older children and adults .Influenza vaccine is 90% effective when the strains in the vaccine are matched to the wild virus (90% of the time) in preventing illness in young healthy persons, and 80% effective even in older persons in preventing influenza-related hospitalization and death. Yes, do not harm and reacommend safe, effective vaccines for those at risk.
Good luck to you and your family.
It has certainly been enjoyable talking to you and watching you talk from both sides of your mouth. Just today when I went with a friend to buy contact lens solution, on the side of the bottle in big letters was this statement “Contains no thimerosal “ as if the manufacturer was very proud of this fact. Then this revelation hit me. How come thimerosal is not a good thing in contact lens cleaning bottles but its o.k. to be injected into the population once a year for an indefinite number of years or many many times if you happen to be a baby getting your childhood vaccines? My friend also mentioned that she heard thimerosal will eventually be taken out of vaccines. Now why is this…?? if it is so benign? See what I mean about both sides of your mouth? On one hand you tell everyone the dangers of mercury and insist that contact lens manufactures take out mercury in their products (I hope you don’t think I think they would do this on their own) and on the other hand your injecting people with it as fast as you can. Another part of this conversation that I have enjoyed is the fantasy world you have created for me. Do you really think that I think you could pick the virus that will attack the U.S. from some pig in China or some bird in Panama with 90% efficacy? Unless you are calling the psychic hotline every night, then I might believe it…. everyone knows how right they always are and you have never once mentioned using that 900 service. I would love to see the study that produced those 80 and 90% results! Let me guess …hmmmm…the pharmaceutical company that made the vaccine? I would have really loved it if you could have convinced me that I was doing the wrong thing in not vaccinating my child it would have made me feel so much better. I haven’t been completely honest with you. You see I did vaccinate my child and at his 15 month visit receiving 9 of them at one time he began seizing and did so 6 to 8 times a day for 3 months. Of course all his doctors said it was not vaccine related (what a funny thing to say to a mother who stays at home and kisses every finger three times a day and knows every inch of her child, did they really think I wouldn’t have noticed something like that?) I didn’t want to be wrong about something I had allowed and participated in but all signs point to vaccines. I guess I was like you, until something happens you or your family you never research these issues. You seem like and intelligent man please don’t continue with the “hope you change your mind stuff and vaccines are a wonderful preventive measure” Instead explain to me how injecting RNA and DNA from diseased animals along with mercury and aluminum X 9 can possibly be good for a child’s bloodstream. If you can do that perhaps I could put my head on the pillow at night and actually sleep Luck is not what I need, I need a miracle
Wendy
I think that we have reached an impasse. I appreciate your points of view, although I disagree with most of them. We deem it safer to vaccinate children and adults with vaccines that have been proven effective and very safe, than to stop vaccination, and suffer the consequences of resurgent preventable diseases. Once again, mercury is toxic to people at certain levels. The levels in vaccines were deemed safe, but because of concerns raised about their effect coupled with other ingestion of mercury, thimerosal has been removed from all vaccines routinely given to children, except for trace amounts (<0.5 micrograms) in one vaccine, Tripedia.
Good luck to you and your family.
DearDoctor,
We have reached way more than an impasse. What we have reached is the height of denial. I'd give my right arm to have the resurgence of preventable diseases if it meant my precious baby would not seize. Have you seen the charts that show the so called diseases gone or down 80% before vaccines came out? I'm sure your have access to charts start the counting at 1900 instead of 1940 and you'll see for yourself. Hope you don't vaccinate your family...but if you do good luck....
Dear Doctor,
Not that you haven’t been a good sport but would you mind terribly taking my correspondence and giving it to someone there that specializes in vaccines? Someone who can really SHOW ME THE SCIENCE! You know, make me beg or more vaccines for my already damaged child. I want someone who can show me the big picture with charts and graphs and real science done with real scientists not the biased pharmaceutical companies. I want to see without a shadow of a doubt how really truly wonderful they have been for our society as a whole. Do you have anyone there like that? I want the truth. Can you help?
~Wendy
I suggest you review the textbook Vaccines, edited by Plotkin and Orenstein, published in 1999 by Saunders, which is the best scientific textbook on the subject. It should be available in a local medical library.
Also, this edition of our Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, discusses the impact of vaccines in the 20th century: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00056803.htm
Finally, this book we have published discusses vaccine-preventable diseases and vaccines in some detail, and may be easier to read than Vaccines: http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/pink/
I will refer your future inquiries to our NIPINFO mailbox.
Thank you for your comment.
I sent him something here but I cant find the original.....
Yes, I trust you read these paragraphs:
"In addition, the Centers for Disease Control and the National Institutes of Health have formed a scientific committee to study the health effects of thimerosal more closely and recommend what more should be done to limit exposure."
"Most of the doctors and scientists who spoke at the hearing presented evidence that showed at least a correlation between vaccines containing mercury and the incidence of neurological disease. But since the sample of autistic children in most of the studies was so small, and because of a general lack of data, most specialists recommended more tests to conclusively determine a scientific link."
Your concern is appropriate, but more work needs to be done to define how much if any real risk exists from these mercury exposures.
, M.D.
Training and Education Branch
Immunization Services Division
National Immunization Program, MS E-52
Atlanta, GA 30333
tel. 404-639-8813
fax
So why don't you stop vaccines until the study is done? Why risk more seizing babies? Don't you care? One seizing or damaged child should be enough! Just a hint....common sense ells you not to inject diseased animal material along with mercury and aluminum and God only knows what else into a fragile newborn.
I suggest you send your future inquries to NIPINFO@cdc.gov to see if others here can offer you information that you find more useful.
Darn, I was hoping you had the answers....are you new the agency? Can you suggest a name of someone for me to talk to?
~Wendy
I read in the newspaper my child will not get his class schedule if he is not vaccinated. Is this true? I will not be vaccinating my children and I have heard these rumors.
1. HRS will take your children if you don't vaccinate them
2. They will not be allowed in school
Can you please shed some light on this subject? I'm pretty sure I still live in freedom and not Nazi Germany but I would like to be reassured.
Thank you in advance,
Wendy
Each state creates their own school laws based upon published recommendations from advisory groups such as the ACIP and the American Academy of Pediatrics. I do not know where you live, but I will refer you to a website that lists the state school laws for each vaccine. You can click on each vaccine and you
will see a chart of all states and their laws.
http://www.immunize.org/laws/index.htm
To be fully informed you may find these other websites helpful and informative.
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/fs/gen/WhatIfStop.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00056803.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/gen/default.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/6mishome.htm#Vaccinepreventable
http://www.immunize.org/stories/unprot.htm
EdD, RN
Public Health Educator
Training and Education Branch
National Immunization Program
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Dear ,
Thank you so much for taking the time to show me those websites but I have such a hard time believing what's on the web (there is so much that is just plain wrong) that I just really would like to hear it directly from you. Can you tell me if Florida Law requires that my children be vaccinated before they go to school? The web site you gave me only stated what was required not if it was mandatory. And please tell me if I do not vaccinate, can HRS take my children? So please, no more websites unless you have one that addresses these issues.
The website I gave you called www.immunize.org/laws makes every effort to remain accurate regarding their information and state laws. It is the website we use as we do not attempt to maintain and duplicate a public reference for 50 states and 14 territories. The vaccines for Florida are mandatory, and I do not know what happens if you do not have your children protected. You will need to call you state Immunization Coordinator at 850-245-4342; the name I see is Henry Janowski.
Unprotected children are a concern for experiencing and spreading vaccine preventable diseases, and, if the numbers of unprotected children increase, so will the diseases. Unprotected children often benefit from the children around them who have been immunized and this concept is called herd immunity. Young parents have not seen the effects of these diseases, so it is hard for you to believe the protection and difference vaccines have made in the quality of life. We do not say that all in the vaccine world is perfect, but vaccines have certainly made a difference.
I hope you will carefully consider the decision you are making for your children's lives.
I am hardly a young parent. And did I say my children haven't been vaccinated? NO! They have. My son seizes 6 to 8 times a day thanks to his vaccinations. I guess he is just a casualty in the war on diseases. A fallen soldier you might say. I wish I could have talked a little further with the recruitment officer and been advised of what could happen before his "bootcamp" of seizures began. Sorry if I don't care too much about your 'herd'' of children. From what I can see the government doesn't either. I just want to know if he can go to school or not without someone hassling me on whether or not I will inject him again with diseased animal matter along with thimerosal that you have so graciously asked drug makers to remove, sorry it came to late for my little soldier. In my less than vaccine perfect world, the only things I've seen are seizures, ear infections and autism in my family alone. This does not include my friends. Just between you and me... measles mumps and Rubella and the like would be a 'walk in the park' compared to what my son has lived through. Thanks for the number I'll give it a call.
Wendy
I saw this on the web and decided again to write my friends at the CDC
The CDC made its first clear-cut vaccination recommendation for pregnant women in 1997, said Raymond Strikas of the CDC's national immunization program. The change had nothing to do with the vaccine, which for decades had been made with bits of killed virus and is safe for expectant mother and fetus, he said. Rather, it's the flu that worried the CDC, which had received studies showing pneumonia and other complications worse for expectant moms, Strikas said
Dr
I find it so hard to believe you Drs. at the CDC still believe the Flu vaccine is safe for pregnant women! I'm looking here at the package insert and it states very clearly 25 micrograms of mercury! Maybe you should change your thimerosal website to say that mercury is not a neurotoxin so at least you could be consistent. The polyethylene glycol also worries me.... Isn't that antifreeze? Formaldehyde, in a developing fetus? That can't be good. What about the fact this vaccine is grown in chicken eggs? Isn't it possible there is transfer of viruses from one species to another? Please talk this over with the other Drs. up there a have a change of mind on this matter. Do you want a whole generation of damaged children? This war could go on a long time and we'll need new soldiers.
Wendy
Thank you for your note;
The threshold levels of mercury in the guidelines for daily exposure are believed to be well below toxic limits. For example a can of tuna fish has an average of 17 micrograms of mercury, and there is no recommendation to avoid tuna for pregnant women. The other elements you mention are in the vaccine, but in trace amounts and have not been shown to be harmful.
These other elements inactivate bacteria and viruses, and to my knowledge, there has never been documentation of transmission of infection by influenza vaccine.
Dr ,
Maybe you are not aware of Dr. Michael Carbone out of (I think) Loyola. He has done some work on the SV40 virus (monkey origin) and cross contamination of species. Here is a paper I found on the Internet about his findings. Maybe you could give him a call and see if this is true or not and if it is, change your stance on the flu vaccine for this country and its people. I am so looking forward to your findings.
Wendy
Dear Dr
Here is a little more info on DNA transfer .....if it can happen in the polio vaccine what makes it not happen in the flu shot? Or maybe it happens you have just not heard of it. Is that what your saying?
Wendy
Vaccines and Production of Negative Genetic Changes in Humans (c) 1996-1998 Leading Edge Research Group Vaccination and Genetic Change: Mobility of Genetic Material Between Life Forms:
One of the indications that vaccinations may in fact be changing the genetic structure of humans became evident in September of 1971, when scientists at the University of Geneva made the discovery that biological substances entering directly into the bloodstream could become part of human genetic structure. Originally, Japanese bacteriologists discovered that bacteria of one species transferred their own specific antibiotic resistance to bacteria of an entirely different species. Dr. Maurice Stroun and Dr. Philip Anker in the Department of Plant Physiology at the University of Geneva, began to accumulate evidence that the transfer of genetic information is not confined to bacteria, but can also occur between bacteria and higher plants and animals. According to an article in World Medicine on September 22, 1971, "Geneva scientists are convinced that normal animal and plant cells shed DNA, and that this DNA is taken up by other cells in the organism."
In one experiment, scientists in Geneva extracted the auricles of frog hearts and dipped them for several hours in a suspension of bacteria. Afterward, they found a high percentage of RNA-DNA hybridization between bacterial DNA extracted from bacteria of the same species as that used in the experiment and titrated DNA extracted from the auricles which had been dipped in the bacterial suspension. Bacterial DNA had been absorbed by the animal cells. This phenomenon has been dubbed transcession. There is evidence that this kind of phenomenon is happening all the time within the human body. It is conceivable, for example, that heart damage following rheumatic fever could the result of the immune system reacting to its own cells producing a foreign RNA complex after absorption of foreign DNA.
In Science magazine, November 10, 1972, bacterial RNA was demonstrated in frog brain cells after a bacterial peritoneal infection. In the April 1973 issue of the Journal of Bacteriology, transcription of spontaneously released bacterial DNA was found to be incorporated into cellular nuclei of frog auricles. Studies by Phillipe Anker and Maurice Stroun have indicated spontaneous release of DNA material from mammalian cells, spontaneous transfer of DNA from bacteria to higher organisms, spontaneous transfer of DNA between cells of higher organisms, release of RNA by mammalian cells,and biological activity of released complexes containing RNA. Malignant Cellular Transformations Caused By Foreign DNA:
There is evidence that freely circulating foreign DNA can cause malignancy.In a 1977 issue of International Review of Cytology, Volume 51, Anker and Stroun discuss the possible effects of foreign DNA causing malignant cell transformations. When foreign DNA is transcribed into a cell of a different organism, "this general biological event is related to the uptake by cells of spontaneously released bacterial DNA, thus suggesting the existence of circulating DNA. In view of the malignant transformations obtained with DNA, the oncogenic (cancer-causing) role of circulating DNA is postulated."
The discovery in 1975 that viruses causing cancer in animals had a special enzyme called reverse transcriptase makes the problem even more interesting. These kind of viruses are called RNA viruses. When an RNA virus has the reverse transcriptase enzyme within its structure, it allows the virus to actually form strands of DNA which easily integrate with the DNA of the host cell which it infects. Studies by Dr. Robert Simpson of Rutgers University indicate that RNA viruses which do not cause cancer can also form DNA, even without the presence of reverse transcriptase. DNA formed in this way from an RNA virus is called a provirus. It is known that some non-cancerous viruses have a tendency to exist as proviruses for long periods of time in cells without causing any apparent disease. In other words, they remain latent. Some examples of common RNA viruses that do not cause cancer, per se, but have the capacity to form proviruses are influenza, measles, mumps and polio viruses. In the October 22, 1967 British Medical Journal, it was brought out by German scientists that multiple sclerosis seemed to be provoked by vaccinations against smallpox, typhoid, tetanus, polio, tuberculosis and diptheria. Even earlier, in 1965, Zintchenko reported 12 cases in which MS became evident after a course of antirabies vaccinations. Remember that millions of people between 1950 and 1970 were injected with polio vaccines containing simian virus 40 (SV-40) transferred from contaminated monkey kidney cells used to culture the vaccine. It is impossible to remove animal viruses from vaccine cultures. You are reminded that SV-40, the 40th virus to be discovered in simian tissue, is a cancer-causing virus.
Immunization programs against influenza, measles, mumps and polio are in fact seeding humans with RNA and forming proviruses which become latent for long periods in throughout the body, only to re-awaken later on. Post-polio syndrome is a good example of this problem. Other examples may include the so-called mesenchymal and collegen diseases, such as rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis and lupus erythmatosis, where antibodies are formed by the immune system against the person's own tissues - tissues which have been impregnated with foreign genetic material. According to a special issue of Postgraduate Medicine in May 1962, "although the body generally will not make antibodies against its own tissues, it appears that slight modification of the antigenic character of tissues may cause it to appear foreign to the immune system and thus a fair target for antibody production." Two years later in 1964, studies were conducted on the polyoma virus, a tumor-producing DNA virus. It was discovered that the persistent genetic DNA material in the polyoma virus brought about malignant transformations in hamster embryo cell cultures. This was reported in the November 23, 1964 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association.
Even common non-tumor viruses, including those in smallpox vaccine and polio virus 2, can act as carcinogens. It was reported in Science on December 15, 1961 that these common viruses acted as catalysts in producing cancer when given to mice in combination with known organic carcinogens in amounts too small to induce tumors themselves. This means that some vaccinations will induce cancer, when combined with the growing problem of environmental pollution from toxic by-products of agriculture (pesticides on and in food) and industry. Of course, this information is hidden from the public, which is why the FDA, EPA and the agricultural industries can get away with "sanctioning" small amounts of pollutants in food, water and air. The connection has not been made public, much to the joy of the chemical industry, the National Cancer Institute and the growing cancer industry, which continues to fraudulently solicit public donations to justify its own existence. As an aside, it has alreadybeen admitted that polio vaccinations have caused 100% of all polio in the United States since 1980 and the predominant cases of all paralytic polio since 1972 (Science, April 4, 1977). It is suspected that the Salk and Sabin vaccines, made of moneky tissue culture, have also been responsible for the major increase in leukemia in the United States.
The use of viruses, bacteria and animal tissue cultures in mass immunization campaigns, considering that this information has been known for 20 years, constitutes an intentionally created hazard to humans. The global impact on the wide range of genotypes relative to human beings is difficult to assess, but the outcome is definitely negative, and permitting the seeding of latent proviruses in humans, knowingly, can have no other rationale other than future medical profiteering, and constitutes a criminal conspiracy of vast proportions which is tatamount to a genocidal policy against the population, further constituting crimes against humanity, which is internationally punishable by death. But, of course, especially in the United States, this fact is ignored and suppressed from public knowledge, despite a 1984 plea by some U.S. physicians to the United Nations in a report. The fact that this goes on with the full knowledge of the world medical community makes this an international conspiracy where the population has no recourse, given that vaccinations are becoming mandatory and a prerequisite for many social programs.
Persistence of long-term viruses and foreign proteins and their relationship to chronic and degenerative disease was also pointed out by Dr. Robert Simpson of Rutgers University in 1976, when he addressed science writers at an American Cancer Society seminar, saying "these proviruses could be molecules in search of a disease." Dr. Wendell Winters, a virologist at the University of California noted, "immunizations may cause changes in slow viruses and changes in the DNA mechanism." Although host cells containing latent viral particles operate more or less normally, they begin to synthesize viral proteins under the guidance of the viral DNA, eventually creating the circumstances for various autoimmune diseases, including diseases of the central nervous system, which unfortunately add to the growing load of aberrant social behavior patterns.
I note that there are no references or data cited below since 1980, and certainly I have seen no other information suggesting that such DNA or RNA incorporation is occurring with vaccination.
Dr ,
Did you get in touch with Dr Michael Carbone yet? His work was done in 1994. I will do my best to find you that information. Are you saying that if work is done before 1980 it is not valid? What does the year have to do with it?
Wendy
Work should be replicated with more recent information to prove that it is valid and still relevant.
Is this true?
Lawyers Claim CDC Cooked Books on Mercury: Secret Report Reveals A leading vaccine injury law group announced today that their firm is now in possession of an unreleased confidential report authored by Centers for Disease Control scientists which studied autism as a potential neurological injury caused by mercury in children's vaccines. An announcement was made by the law firm of Waters & Kraus, the firm that filed the first known lawsuit alleging that a mercury preservative in children's vaccines caused neurological damage to an infant ultimately diagnosed with autism.
Andy Waters, the lead attorney in the firm, warned that a different version of the report was eventually made public and has been cited by the recent Institute of Medicine study as inconclusive on the issue of whether the mercury-based vaccine preservative known as thimerosal has contributed to cause a nationwide epidemic of regressive autism and other neurological disorders in small children. The confidential version of the study, however, clearly demonstrated that an exposure to more than 62.5 micrograms of mercury within the first three months of life significantly increased a child's risk of developing autism. Specifically, the study found a 2.48 times increased risk of autism - that is to say, children with the exposure were more than twice as likely to develop autism as children not exposed. In the United States, courts of law have generally held that a relative increased risk of 2.0 or higher is sufficient to substantiate that a given exposure causes disease. As but one example, in the case of Cook v.United States, 545 F.Supp. 306, at 308 (Northern District - California 1982) the Court stated that, "in a vaccine case, a relative risk greater than 2.0 establishes that there is a greater than 50% chance that the injury was caused by the vaccine." Waters indicated that, in many of the cases his firm has evaluated, including the case filed in a Texas state court on behalf of the Counter family, the affected child received more than 62.5 micrograms of mercury through pediatric vaccines in the first three months of life. The confidential report, which was obtained by the SAFEMINDS support and advocacy group, states: "As for the exposure evaluated at 3 months of age, we found increasing risks of 'neurological developmental disorders' with increasing cumulative exposure to thimerosal ... within the group of 'developmental disorders'... for the sub-group called 'specific delays,' and within this sub-group for the specific disorder 'developmental speech disorder,' and for 'autism,' 'stuttering' and 'attention deficit disorder.'"
The report also contained the graph depicted below which illustrated the report's findings of a child's increasing risk of developing the neurological symptoms of autism after receiving increasing amounts of
thimerosal.
Waters pointed out that the confidential study's lead author, Thomas Verstraeten, has since left the Centers for Disease Control and is now employed by GlaxoSmithKline, a manufacturer of thimerosal-containing vaccines for many years that is a defendant in numerous suits pending nationwide. "We have asked GlaxoSmithKline to provide Mr. Verstraeten's deposition in order to understand if conflict of interest issues may have played a role in the CDC's decision to keep this report confidential, and specifically, their failure to reveal it to the Institute of Medicine."
Waters called the report's contents and the fact that it was kept from the public as "shocking, but unfortunately not surprising, given the political influence of pharmaceutical companies and the tremendous liability they face if they are forced to compensate thousands of families for the costs of care that these children require."
Waters added that "no amount of money can give these children back the potential that they were born with, and no amount of money will comfort the parents that watched helplessly as their children literally just slipped away."
The purpose of the lawsuits his firm is currently prosecuting, said Waters, is "to bring to the surface the truth on this issue, a truth that government agencies seem unwilling to admit, perhaps for fear that
parents will stop vaccinating their children, and to force the companies that profited from this disastrous mistake to shoulder the responsibility that so many families now bear on their own, often without even the aid of health insurance benefits."
It is not; please see www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/faqs-thimerosal.htm#8
Didn't you tell me only 5 micrograms was safe for a 110 pd woman? 187.5 micrograms in a 3 month old and they don't have neurological damage? Sorry, I find that really hard to believe. Where can the study be read? What was the criteria? Did the CDC do the study or the vaccine producer?
Very curious,
Wendy
CDC did the study.
Subject: Check out Brigham & Women's Hosiptal: Multimodality Therapy of Chest Malignac
Click here: Brigham & Women's Hosiptal: Multimodality Therapy of Chest Malignacies-Update 2000 Gosh! I didn't think I would find it this quick!
Please see http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/cancer/default.htm
So basically more study is needed according to the CDC. Anyone doing any studies on it now?
Dying to know,
Wendy
I don't know; per our website,
The Food and Drug Administration has been the federal government lead in answering questions relating to SV40 in polio vaccine. You may call the FDA at the following number: 1-800-835-4709.
Dr ,
Are you sure this is not true? I've seen this twice now.
Wendy
October 22, 2001
Thimerosal
Last week, Waters and Kraus, a law firm, claimed in a press release that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had evidence that an exposure to 62.5 micrograms of mercury in the first three months of life raised a child's risk of developing autism almost three-fold. At issue is THIMEROSAL, the mercury-based vaccine preservative, found in various vaccines. (See RED FLAG posting below, entitled, "VERY SLOW MOTION.") Waters and Kraus, which has filed law suits alleging neurological damage due to THIMEROSAL, along with nine other law firms, says that the real report with the hot data on THIMEROSAL was withheld from scientific scrutiny, and particularly from the Institute of Medicine which recently reviewed the data on the preservative. Another less-telling report was issued by the CDC and reviewed by the institute. It seems that the author of the hush-hush CDC study is now employed by GlaxoSmithKline. This drug company, among others, has manufactured vaccines with THIMEROSAL. So why did the CDC keep the real report confidential? I guess the lawsuits which have been filed might provide some rousing answers. This might get very interesting, as allegations of conflict-of-interest have become common on the various vaccine fronts. RED FLAGS WEEKLY will provide updates.
My understanding is that the Institute of Medicine received all the information that they requested, and that nothing was hidden from them. More studies are planned to assess any possible association of thimerosal in vaccines with neurological disorders in children. These are discussed at http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/default.htm
Dr
Every time I think I can't be any more astounded at what the CDC might recommend, you manage to come up with something even more offensive. I just read in my newspaper the CDC recommends the flu shot to 6 to 23 month olds. Have you not read the package insert to this vaccine? 25 micrograms of mercury? Didn't you tell me 110 pd women should only have 5 micrograms? Are you thinking at all up there? Do you want brain-damaged kids? Is this the plan? Do you sit around a table and just say, “well the kids won't get the flu but they will have neurological problems …oh well can't have everything?” Show me the logic in this! Am I missing something? There are thousands of flu strains. This vaccine is for three and it was made two years ago! Why are you recommending flu shots on top of all the other vaccines? Please don't tell me you are worried kids will die from the flu without this vaccine. Those lawyers are making a real good case for heavy metal damage in children why in the world would you recommend more metal and compound the problem? You already know the damage mercury does, its in the website you just gave me! Please explain this to me in great detail or ask Dr. Keiji FukudaI how he came up with this plan. I want to be sure I understand completely.
Wendy
U.S. IMMUNIZATION NEWS
"Panel Urges Vaccinations Against Flu for Infants"
USA Today (www.usatoday.com) (02/21/02) P. 16B; Manning, Anita
A panel from federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said this week that flu shots for infants between the ages of six months and two years should be "encouraged" for the next flu season, and it plans to fully recommend annual flu vaccinations for children in that age group within the next couple of years. The CDC's Advisory Panel on Immunization Practices (ACIP), which makes recommendations on federal vaccine policies, decided not to fully recommend yearly flu vaccinations for infants until certain practical details--such as insurance reimbursement issues and parent and doctor education policies--could be worked out, according to Dr. Keiji Fukuda of the CDC. Fukuda said that healthy infants under the age of 24 months face a higher risk of being hospitalized for flu-related illnesses than do older children. ACIP also voted to recommend that only healthcare workers and people at greatest risk of experiencing flu complications, such as people suffering from chronic illnesses and people over the age of 65, be given the flu vaccine in October or earlier. The panel said that all other people can wait until November to get vaccinated. Approximately 87 million doses of the flu vaccine were produced this year, and vaccine manufacturers are hoping to make between 88 million doses and 93
million doses for the next flu season.
(No answer from the Dr.)
Dr ,
I thought you might like to see some more research done on the SV40. Maybe you can update the CDC's website to reflect the definite danger of the polio vaccine. Or is the FDA in charge of that?
Simian-Virus 40 Infection Causes Mesothelioma Cells to Secrete VEGF
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/426604
Reuters Health Information 2002. © 2002 Reuters Ltd
Introduction
NEW YORK (Reuters Health) Feb 19 - The integration of simian virus-40 (SV40) DNA sequences into the DNA of human malignant mesothelioma cells is associated with increased release of vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), Italian investigators have discovered.
This previously rare tumor is increasing dramatically worldwide, Dr. Luciano Mutti, of the Ospedale S. Pietro e Paolo in Borgosesia, and associates note in the American Journal of Respiratory Cell and Molecular Biology for February. It has been suggested that the link between the cancer and SV40 is associated with contaminated stocks of polio vaccine. Dr. Mutti's team found that two of nine human malignant mesothelioma cell lines carried SV40 DNA. Mean VEGF levels in the culture medium were significantly higher in the SV40-positive tumor cell cultures than in those that were SV40-negative, 1579 pg/mL versus 307 pg/mL (p < 0.01). The investigators transfected normal human mesothelial cells with SV40. Their production of VEGF was essentially the same as that of the malignant cells, 1554 pg/mL. To evaluate the potential angiogenic effect of SV40-positive mesothelioma tumors, the authors incubated human umbilical vein cells with the medium in which cells positive and negative for SV40 had been cultured. The SV40-positive culture medium induced significantly greater cell growth at 24 and 48 hours than did the SV40-negative medium (p < 0.01). Using antibodies to block VEGF did not reduce the cell counts, however, suggesting that "VEGF may not be the only growth factor produced by malignant mesothelioma cells capable of stimulating endothelial cell growth," the Italian team adds. Therefore, the group recommends research be conducted to look for anti-angiogenic agents for the treatment of this tumor.
Drs. Brooke T. Mossman and Dieter C. Gruenert, of the University of Vermont College of Medicine in Burlington, suggest, "The establishment of a favorable tumor environment may be relevant to both asbestos- and SV40-induced mesotheliomas and may be one mechanism whereby SV40 acts cooperatively with asbestos in the development of these malignancies."
Am J Respir Cell Mol Biol 2002;26:167-169,189-193.
Per our website, this is an issue, but only for persons who were vaccinated with polio and RSV vaccines years ago.Thank you.
How many years ago? I'm 40 and concerned
1963 and before; again, more information at
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/cancer/default.htm#4
Yep, that would include me then....how comforting....wonder what they will find out about my kids and their vaccines in 40 years.....this is criminal....you need to stop vaccines until they are tested fully.
Please define full testing;
we cannot realistically do follow up for 30 or 40 years, so it is unfortunate that problems are found years after a vaccine or drug is approved and used, but part of this is that scientific testing improves as time passes, so new problems are discovered years after an intervention occurs.If we had not vaccinated against polio, we would have had 20,000 cases of polio per year, so the tradeoffs are difficult to assess.
Testing that lasts longer then 6 weeks. With the same person. Would be a start. Have you seen any studies on any vaccine longer than that? Maybe a study on vaccinated vs. unvaccinated. I have seen the definition of polio and the definition aseptic meningitis they seem to be the same. Maybe polio is not even close to being gone thanks to vaccines...maybe just the diagnosis has just changed. Have there been any studies on formalin in vaccines? formaldehyde? Mercury, oh yes finally...glad to see...to bad its to late for all the autistic kids ....maybe that should have been tested fully. You know mercury is dangerous. Why isn't every vaccine pulled off the shelf immediately? You see what I mean? No concern even after something dangerous has been discovered.
Wendy
And if we pull vaccines off the shelf for theoretical concerns, then we KNOW diseases will come back, and people will get sick and die. I think we both agree about the need, not yet satisfied, to balance disease prevention by vaccines, and preventing adverse events from vaccines.
Theoretical!!! You mean there is still some doubt mercury causes neurological problems? Yes, I will agree that we need prevent adverse events from vaccines from happening. I do not agree diseases will come back. They have never left. We just rename them. They can never die off if you keep injecting them into the population. Vaccines shed. The only "theoretical concern" I can see is your thinking diseases will come back. There is no proof to that statement. There is proof to mercury damage.
-----Original Message-----
From: Lovthatlea@aol.com [mailto:Lovthatlea@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 6:28 PM
Dr ,
Read this a tell me if this is true. Are there really no studies? You know I hang on your every word.
Wendy
This is the translation of the flyer by the society of which Dr Stefan Lanka and Karl Krafeld are presidents of. They are actually encouraging people to write to the government to be shown actual proof that viruses exist, since so much scientific 'evidence' is based on it. Although this has been done since the middle of last year, in Germany as well as Austria, and apparently some other European countries, so far, no government body has been able to provide this proof or to even refer to any relevant scientific literature! I will start something like this here in the UK, and I'd love to see this started in every country.
claudia
WISSENSCHAFT, MEDIZIN UND MENSCHENRECHTE E.V.
Does vaccinating make sense?
No! Because vaccinating is comprehensive fraud. It has never been possible to create diseases with relevant microbes. In the year 1882, the bacteriologist Robert Koch started scientific fraud on political orders. As neither he himself nor others managed to cause the purported diseases with bacteria, he produced, in totally insane and cruel animal experiments, „similar symptoms“ and assessed this as proof for the ability to infect someone. All those who vaccinate refer to these experiments from the 19th Century.
Yes! If one accepts and approves that the governments of the world irreversibly implant nerve poisons such as mercury, aluminum, solvents etc by bypassing detoxification with vaccination. These nerve poisons provoke gradual to manifest stupidification, development disturbances of all kinds, paralysis and death of the vaccinated and serve to break the will of human beings. If the reactions to vaccines go beyond the average, then the law speaks of „vaccine damage“. No! Because ‚the ability to infect’ was exclusively defined as poisoning by scientific medicine (Virchow, Max von Pettenkofer, Rush, Klein and others) which has recognized diseases objectively correct between poisoning, deficiency and brain functions. And the latin name for poison, for example in water through faeces, decay poisons in food and from corpses is Virus.Experiments were carried out publicly which have disproven the statements about „infection“ through microbes and vaccination.
Yes! If one accepts and approves that „vaccinating“ has turned the human being into an easily manipulatable object who now believes that health does not result from onself, but requires a strong state and its pharma industry. Because the one who allows to be vaccinated, will allow anything and will no longer notice that he/she is being poisoned and killed with antibiotics, chemotherapy, irradiation, gen technology etc.
No! Because none of those "viruses“ that claim to make you ill, like smallpox, polio, hepatitis, aids, ebola,measles, mumps, rubella and tic viruses has ever been seen, isolated and proven as existent. State medicine invented these „viruses“ in order to conceal vaccination and medication damages. This fact can easily be checked by anyone. There is no publication in scientific literature in which a scientist states and proves that he isolated and characterized the relevant virus out of a sick person. Relevant text books present, with fraudulent intention, models and photographs of cells as ‚viruses’. Any amateur can learn, within a couple of days, the isolating, photographing and characterizing of viruses which exist – and which are all harmless.
Yes! If one accepts and approves that by way of „vaccinating“ in the Third World, massive „population control“, speak euthanasia, was and is executed. The vaccines there contain pregnancy hormones to prevent onception, gentech activated nuclein acid to sterilize males as well, plutomium with which whole tribes have been poisoned, etc. If the same nerve poisons are contained in these vaccines as in this country, then in a much higher concentration, up to 100 and 1000-fold. The resulting „vaccine damages“, acute liver failure and resulting whole boody bleedingwill then be termed „ebola“, „marburg“, „crimea-congo“, „lassa“ infection etc or as „Aids“.
No! Because even since Pasteur, no vaccine contains what it claims to contain: viruses or parts there of! If one enquires at the responsible authorities, the answer is given that this is a company secret of the manufacturer which has to be protected by the state. The health authorities, medical association and physicians conceal that each vaccine contains poisons, such as mercury, aluminum, solvents etc. Without which the „serum“ would never produce a reaction! Inserts are generally not distributed. Yes! If one accepts and approves that the CDC and EIS and therefore the Pentagon manipulate the national health authorities through the WHO, and created through parliaments the legal frame to suspend civil rights any time and anywhere.And who execute a psychoterror, which is proven to result in ill health, against their own people by making dishonest statements about biowarfare, e.g. anthrax, pox, polio etc.
No! Because all numbers shown by the state show clearly that „vaccinations“ never had any influence on falling numbers of diseases, quite to the contrary. This is an easily uncovered fraud of those in favor of vaccinations in the production of statistics. The same goes for the definition of the various „infectious“ diseases. These are constantly changed in order to proof, on one hand, the success of „vaccinations“, such as the change of the definition of „smallpox“ and „polio“ to show their disappearance and on the other hand to invent new „infectious diseases“, such as AIDS.
Yes! If one accepts that genocide happens in your own country, because the German penal code defines „vaccination“ as genocide: „Who, with the intention to wholly or partly destroy a national, racial, religious or ethnic group as such, impose living conditions which are suitable to effect their physical destruction wholle or partly will be punished with life long imprisonment. In lesser cases, the punishment is no less than five years.“
Appeal!
Those who continue to recommend, execute or allow vaccination, following these statements of facts. The advice is that the facts stated in this flyer will be checked by the reader. The simplest way to do this is to ask the relevant authorities for a scientific publication in which a scientist states and proves that he has isolated and shown the relevant illness causing „virus“ taken from an ill person. This is called the compliance with the First Koch Postulate, which medicine states contrary to better knowledge. The law here demands proof according to the current state of science and technology. Therefore, proving the existence of a „virus“ that causes disease requires the thermionic microscopic photograph of the isolated virus and the biochemical characterizing of the virus components. As such a proof does not exist anywhere, it becomes clear that the nerve poisons in the vaccines are intentionally implanted in the population. With this wanted deception and poisoning of the population, every citizen is obliged to file charges with the police against executioners and those involved in vaccinations. Please make copies of this and send replies www.aufwaerts.at and www.klein-klein-aktion.de.
In our book „Vaccinating – Genocide in the Third Millenium?“, statements and the history of „vaccinating“ in depth – proofs from authorities printed, such as how the Austrian president of the medical association, Dr Otto Pjeta tried to prevent with the help of the courts facts about vaccinations being made public – backgrounds explained why the American Government has been utilizing the creation of fear in the health services since 1951 as a political means – and the reports from mothers on vaccination and the background on AIDS, BSE, MKS and further investigations, all presented to the public for the first time. The book has 304 pages and costs DM 50 and can be ordered from Pirolverlag, PF 1210, 85066-Eichstätt, per Fax 08421/99761 or e-mail: info@pirolverlag.de In Austria order from Natürliches Leben, PF 114, 6300
Wörgl. Tel: 05332/73606, Fax: O5332/76426, e-mail:
vnl@aon.at
ViSdPR Wissenschaft, Medizin und Menschenrechte e.V.
1.Vors: Karl Krafeld 2.Vors. Dr.Stefan Lanka
Ludwig-Pfau-Str.1b 70176-Stuttgart
I suggest you send all further inquiries to us to NIPINFO@cdc.gov.
Education, Information, and Partnership Branch
Immunization Services Division
National Immunization Program, MS E-52
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Atlanta, GA 30333
tel. 404-639-8813
fax 404-639-8828
Dear Dr ,
It must be so nice to just be able to dismiss someone with annoying questions to some other department and go on with your day. I wish it were that easy for me. My seizing son, from your precious vaccines precludes me from “just letting it go”. I can’t just pass him off to another department. I must deal daily with the repercussions of the CDC’s actions taken regarding vaccinations. What angers me the most is you do not have studies or concrete risk/benefit ratios done on these vaccines and you do not let the general public know you don’t have them. You just make it mandatory for kids to receive vaccinations. You are not even quick about pulling mercury out of the vaccines for Gods sake a known neurotoxin per your website. It will be an ugly day when mothers find out what you are really doing to their babies. I hope there is a not a special place in hell for those of you that know the dangers of vaccines and do nothing about it.
Wendy
1. NIPINFO@cdc.gov is the e-mail address for me and others who staff our
general e-mail inquiries. I am not "just dismissing someone with annoying
questions to some other department and go on with your day."
2. Thimerosal in vaccines has not been proven to cause harm to vaccinated
children, though further studies have been requested by the Institute of
Medicine. It is not present in usually recommended childhood vaccines, nor
has it been in significant amounts since 2001.
3. State governments, not CDC, make vaccine regulations for school entry,
although, yes, CDC encourages such regulations.
This was a mistake. I sent a forwarded email to my aunt and she accidentally emailed the doctor!
-----Original Message-----
From: Barbara Whitaker [mailto:bwhitaker@sprintmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 8:46 AM
To:
Subject: RE: (no subject)
wow, you really got him running, haven't you. This could be interesting.
Don't forget to send me your rebuff now. Love, B
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 8:56 AM
To: 'Barbara Whitaker'
Subject: RE: (no subject)
Thanks for your reply. I don't think that I am running, just replying to a person with limited facts.
Dr , so sorry my reply to Wendy went astray, but I must beg your pardon, someone with Education, Information, and Partnership Branch attached to his name on an email address should know the facts. From what I have read you don't seem to be that person. If anyone is limited on his education about the evils of Vaccines, I am afraid it is you. I know you only relay what you have been told, too bad those with monetary gains in mind are only giving you the limited facts. Fear not, I do believe there is hope for you yet, because of past communication with Wendy you have shown an interest in learning more.
You really don't want to start another conversations with someone who believes like Wendy, I don't think your heart could take it. But I do admire your spunk even if it's misdirected. Thank you for taking the time to try and convince me that vaccines in any way help our children. It will never happen. The facts that you call limited so totally out weight what the drug companies and the CDC have to say that there is no possible way those that do have all of the facts could ever believe in vaccines. Do your soul a favor and pull your head out of the sand and really research what is going on, it will change your life. Barbara
Education, Information, and Partnership Branch
Immunization Services Division
National Immunization Program, MS E-52
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Atlanta, GA 30333
tel. 404-639-8813
fax 404-639-8828
Dr ,
That is hysterical!!! Me with limited facts!!! Now that is the pot calling the kettle black!!! I have yet to squeeze one real fact out of you!! You don't have any!! There is only 58,000 antivaccine websites for you to read that have facts maybe if you start today researching, you might come across some! That was my Aunt you told I had “limited facts.“ I am surprised she was so gentle with your ignorance…. she must have been having a really good day. It is so sad that you think just because you are a doctor that you have all the answers. Doctors are not that well trained. When I asked my neighbor who is an OBGYN about the flu vaccine and if she had recommended it to her patients she said,” yes why”? I pulled out the package insert and showed her the mercury content….her jaw dropped and her face became bright red. She then mumbled something about patients dying from the flu and went back in the house. She had no clue. My dentist who has a flu shot every year didn’t have one this year. Why? you might ask…I showed him the package insert as well. He is not stupid. He no longer does mercury fillings either. This stuff is not rocket scientism. You can’t inject mercury into a newborn and think nothing is going to happen. Great they have taken out mercury in 2001……hmmm wonder why? Did some facts leak out like mercury is a neurotoxin? Now lets work on the aluminum and formaldehyde and by the way what about the autoimmune problems? Why don’t you show me how autoimmune diseases are not caused by vaccines. I can show you they are ….with facts. Look around. Why are one in one hundred and fifty kids autistic? Why is every kid you see on Ritalin? Brain damage. Mercury damage. I know it is hard to admit your wrong. Ask my pediatrician how to do it. He admitted it gracefully…. to me. He also said he would loose is license if he told mothers the truth. He is a criminal in my book. He will never see another dollar from me or my insurance company. He knows the truth and does nothing about it. Unless there is some other agenda, vaccines should long ago been taken off the market. Dan Burton is the only government official I have seen with any sense whatsoever when it comes to vaccines and his interest in them comes at a devastating price….his grandchildren. Both with vaccine damage. Seen any of his legislation? Why don’t you join some vaccine damage group on the Internet and see the facts without the rose color of drug money. I have sent you several articles from them but you refuse to answer them. That tells me you can’t. Or maybe you are just “limited with facts.”
Wendy
I have responded repeatedly to your notes.
If you have further comments or questions, I suggest you send them to
nipinfo@cdc.gov
I saw this on the Internet is it true? Thanks in advance, Wendy
Another thing that is really bothering me is that, yes they are taking thimerosal out of the manufacturing of vaccines BUT they are still using it in the *process* of making the vaccines, and since it is no longer an added ingredient it does not have to be included in *ingrediants*. A friend told me this several weeks ago, hearing from a legal person who has taken thimerosal free vaccines into be tested and Mercury/thimerosal is still showing up...granted in much smaller levels, but they have found a way to continue using this and not telling us about it.
The full list of vaccines that have "trace" (< 0.3 ug)amts of thimerosal is:
Aventis DTaP (Tripedia)
Aventis Hib (TriHibit)
GSk Hep B (Engerix B)
Aventis Meningococcal (Menomune)
These products should be considered equivalent to thimerosal-free products. This vaccine may conatain trace amounts of mercury left after post-production thimerosal removal; these amounts have no biological effect.
The PDR entries for both Tripedia and Engerix-B disclose that there are trace amounts contained in the vaccine.
If a vaccine package insert states that it has no thimerosal in it, then it does not.
Is it possible to work at the CDC and have financial ties to the pharmaceutical industry?
Wendy
Your question is outside the scope of the purpose of NIPINFO. Our legal counsel recommends that if you want information regarding this matter, you can send a Freedom of Information Act request to CDC at:
Ms. Lynn Armstrong
FOIA Officer
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
1600 Clifton Road
Atlanta, Georgia 30333
No need, I got my answer. It is a lot like Tony Blair and his son Leo. A simple question is asked of him. “Did you give the MMR to your son”? That seemingly innocuous question is all of a sudden “off topic” and he cannot reveal private medical information about his family. This answer again, speaks volumes.
I had a hard time imagining why a government entity would recommend a detrimental product, a product contaminated with Mercury to its people as well as people in other countries and then I thought if they did, then there must be a good reason. I guess if you give enough “research grants or speaker fees” anything including a neurotoxin can miraculously have merit. Thanks for clearing up the confusion for me. I’ll explain this to my son as soon as he is old enough to ask why he seizes with such frequency.
Wendy
Dear Doctor
News for your website.....
San Francisco - At the American Association of Cancer Research meeting here today, controversy continued to swirl around accusations that contaminated polio vaccine stocks are to blame for certain cancers, based on the publication a month ago of two high-profile papers linking the simian virus SV40 to human lymphomas. Less than a week after the papers were published in March, the US National Cancer Institute contacted the researchers to establish plans to send blinded results to three independent labs, lead researcher Adi Gazdar told BioMedNet
News today.
But Gazdar seems unconvinced of the NCI's intentions. "They just want to prove us wrong," he said. Gazdar and his colleagues scanned 99 lymphomas, 235 epithelial tumors and 40 control tissues for the virus. They found the virus in 43% of non-Hodgkin's lymphomas, 9% of Hodgkin's lymphomas, and in none of the control tissues. A second team independently found the virus in 42% of non-Hodgkin's lymphomas, "almost unbelievable agreement," said Gazdar, who is professor of pathology at the University of Texas Southwestern medical center. "These are very respectable labs with basically identical results," said Michele Carbone, associate professor of pathology at Loyola University in Chicago. The "clear clustering of positives" is "no accident," he told
BioMedNet News.
This is not the first time scientists have linked SV40 to human cancers. Researchers suggested for years that millions of vials of polio vaccine, contaminated with SV40, infected individuals between 1953 and 1963 and caused human tumors. Until recently, they were inevitably met with skepticism, even contempt - and some NCI researchers published directly contradictory results.
In 1997, the US National Institutes of Health, with other organizations, organized an international conference to review the SV40 literature and address the possibility that the virus causes human tumors. At the meeting, Carbone, presented his then-controversial data linking the virus to mesotheliomas. (Since then, more than 30 independent reports have confirmed his results). After the meeting, Carbone says, a conscientious Chicago public health official contacted Carbone and gave him the last remaining stocks of polio vaccine from the 1950s. In her paper, Butel isolated a strain of SV40 from three patients that closely matches the strain Carbone sequenced from the polio vaccine vials.
The evidence proves Butel's results are no artifact, Carbone says. "You cannot contaminate with something that doesn't exist," he said. "This thing only exists in my freezer." Since publication of their research in the Lancet last month, Gazdar and his colleagues have been investigating rarer subtypes like leukemia and multiple myelomas. The experiments have not been proceeding as fast as they would like, Gazdar says, partly because "there's no government funding" for the research. "The lymphoma story might force them to [fund it]." An important next step, Gazdar says, is to prove that the SV40 virus causes lymphomas and isn't just a "passenger" in the cells. That is no easy task, since researchers have only been able to isolate the virus in rare instances.
For the most part, they believe, the virus launches a "hit-and-run" attack, initiating a cascade of tumorigenic events before it is destroyed by the body. Still, it is critical that this research continue, Gazdar says, because molecular and immunologic data suggest those born after 1963 have also been exposed to the virus, via horizontal or vertical transmission, or through sexual contact. The rates of mesotheliomas, lymphomas and brain tumors have also all gone up "dramatically" in the last 30 years. "Coincidence or not, we have to find out," he said. "It's something to think about."
Thank you.
Dr or anyone else,
Will you please send me a copy of the information sheet you give to Drs that help them persuade parents to vaccinate there children? My pediatrician has one but won't share.
Thanks in advance,
Wendy
We have no such information sheet that we provide just to doctors. However, information on this issue is available on our website at
http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/fs/gen/Why.htm
Hey look I found it!!! In a chat room on the web! Isn't the Internet wonderful!!!???The guy only had a copy... not the web address do you know it?
When parents do not believe in childhood immunization
by Beth Hibbs, RN, MPH
Special to Infectious Diseases in Children
November 1999
Part of every pediatric health care worker's job today is counseling parents. With so much health information available today, they are bound to come into the office with misinformation. One of our jobs is to correct this. Here's how. First, start by learning something about the parents' belief systems. Focus on identifying what the specific concern is and write it down while listening to the parent so that you can address specific questions directly. Some chiropractic viewpoints in the literature include a belief that proper nutrition can take the place of immunization by strengthening the immune system defenses against disease.
While a nutritious diet certainly is helpful in building the immune system, diet alone cannot prevent disease. Another common belief is that vaccines can overload the immune system. What patients don't realize is that our immune systems are exposed to many antigens every day in food and water. Both of these viewpoints are addressed in a publication by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) entitled The 6 Common Misconceptions about Vaccination and How to Respond to Them, available free through the National Immunization Program (NIP).
Some concerned parents may themselves have had an adverse event following a vaccination, or know someone close to them who has. In this case, be sure to complete a Vaccine Adverse Event Form, which is required for reporting adverse reactions in children under the National Vaccine Childhood Injury Act. The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) collects all reports of ill effects following vaccination. Some of these reports to VAERS are caused by vaccination and others are not related, but coincidently happened around the time the vaccine was given. Anyone can report to VAERS, including parents. VAERS can be reached at (800) 822-7967.
Second, identify the source of the concern about immunization that serves as the parents' reference. Is it based on recognized medical or scientific organizations? Point out that several organizations like the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Academy of Family Physicians and federal health agencies like the CDC are in agreement about the value of vaccines and make recommendations for immunization practices. In some instances it may be appropriate to intervene with the source, especially if inaccurate or misleading information is made public and published in your local newspaper. A letter to the editor from a local physician can help to set the record straight.
If the source is chiropractic science, one approach is to point out that chiropractors are not in agreement about the value of vaccines. The largest U.S. chiropractic professional organization is the American Chiropractic Association (ACA). The ACA policy on immunization practices states that "the ACA recognizes and advises the public that: Vaccination has been shown to be a cost effective and clinically practical public health preventive procedure for certain viral and microbial diseases as demonstrated by the scientific community.” The policy goes on to state that "the use of vaccination is not without risk and that the association supports each individual's right to freedom of choice in his or her own health care based on informed awareness of benefits and possible adverse effects of vaccination (ACA 1996)."
Third, help the patient evaluate the specific concern. Many groups that put out information about vaccines on the Internet may have official-sounding organizational names, when in actuality they are not science- or medical-based organizations and primarily serve to reflect the opinions of individuals. If the topic of concern is published in a journal, point out that it is the weight of scientific evidence or number of studies showing the same result that determines fact from fiction. If only one study suggests an association it cannot be assumed to be factual until it is verified by other researchers. Several recent vaccine safety allegations that some patients may have seen are based on isolated studies that have never been confirmed.
Fourth, don't alienate the patient by simply dismissing their information source or becoming defensive. If you are not familiar with the specific concern, don't try to fake it but use your resources to investigate the question and get back to them or to refer them for more information. You might want to discuss with the parents how the medical and public health systems protect the public and the safety of vaccines. Governmental agencies like the Food and Drug Administration, the CDC, and professional medical associations as well as scientists are continually monitoring and studying the safety of vaccines. The suspension of rotavirus vaccine this summer was a good example of how the system works.
Fifth, use your resources. Every physician who administers vaccines is required under the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act to supply a Vaccine Information Statement (VIS) to the parent or guardian of the child receiving recommended vaccines. Some concerned patients need other resources to double-check information that they receive from you and others, and an effective intervention on your part is to recognize this need and provide them with additional resources to further gather information. Feel free to share the number for the CDC Immunization Hotline: (800) 232-2522 (English) and (800) 232-0233 (Spanish). The hotline has a knowledgeable staff who is aware of current vaccine safety rumors and facts. The vaccine has since been pulled voluntarily from the market by the manufacturer.
The NIP also has a Web site that includes information about vaccine safety. See www.cdc/nip.gov. For the specific Web page on vaccine safety see www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/. You might also want to pick up for your office the book What Every Parent Should Know About Vaccines by Paul Offit, MD, and Louis Bell, MD.
Sixth, if all else fails, agree to disagree. There are some individuals who have already made up their mind about vaccine risks and benefits. The best thing you can do in these instances is to state your own beliefs about the importance of vaccination and respect their final decision. You might also want to counsel them on specific measures they will need to take if their child comes down with an infectious disease, e.g., keeping their child out of school.
Beth Hibbs, RN, MPH, is with the National Immunization Program, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
What Should Physicians Do?
1. Learn about the parents' belief systems.
2. Id the source of concern about immunization that serves as the parents' reference.
3. Evaluate the specific concern.
4. Don't alienate parent by dismissing their information source or becoming defensive.
5. Use your resources.
Dr or anyone else,
Are you having trouble finding the URL I asked about? Usually you are so prompt in getting back to me. I hate to add another task to your day but I just read this on the net and it is quite alarming. Can you please read it and give me your take on it?
Thanks, Wendy
I am reading about this mercury thingy and feel it needs to be put into perspective. Now I am no doctor, scientist, govt official, vaccine funder (i.e. bill gates) or pharmaceutical health provider. I'm a dedicated researcher, that has spent more time researching vaccines than most doctors spend in medical school or politicians serving their portfolio.
All I want to say is mercury is not mercury.... The mercury used in vaccines is called 'ethylmercuthiosalicylate'. There, I've finally said it. Check with any chemist and ask them what happens to a toxic metal coupled with a salicylate and ingested. The toxicity of that metal is increased. This is not just mercury we are talking about. We are talking about a substance that increases gut permeability (salicylate) coupled with a deadly neurotoxin (ethylmercury) that crosses the blood brain barrier.........(and i haven't even touched on the sodium thing)...
This is not rocket science folks.....and if I can find the information that I can find, many in positions of power must know it........
By the way , do some research on ethlymercurithiosalicylate....then let me know how harmless it is. Then tell me you would rather inject it into your body than hop on a QANTAS flight.
How many doctors/scientists does it take to go DUH????
Dr. XXXXX is not on email duty today. As far as what we know and can say,I can point you to our website on mercury. You may already know that there is an IOM (Institute of Medicine) report there too. Click on the blue font that says IOM Report and you will see the entire report in a summary form as well as a complete form. Thank you for your concern.http://www.cdc.gov/nip/vacsafe/concerns/thimerosal/default.htm
Public Health Educator
Education, Information, and Partnership Branch
National Immunization Program
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Nurse,
Your answer to my question is so interesting. It is the way you frame your answer: "As far as what we know and can say." This implies you know more than what you can say. What stops you from just telling the truth? What would happen if you at the CDC would just admit that you made a mistake? I think parents would be more forgiving if you would just admit mercury is causing neurological damage and withdraw all vaccines until proper studies can be done. Simple. Less people to fight with in court in the long run. Cut your losses now. It is just a matter of time until this is out in the mainstream media.
Sincerely,
Wendy
Part 1 - Thimerosal Hearings - Long
Dr. Colleen Boyle:
I think we've made a considerable progress in reducing the thimerosal content in vaccines.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
No, so you've asked that thimerosal be reduced in vaccines, have you not?
Dr. Owen Rennert:
I think the answer is that this was done as a precautionary measure.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Why?
Uknnown Speaker:
Because it was feasible to do, and there are sources of exposure to Mercury that we cannot control, such as that from food. And so --
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
I'm talking about the vaccine. Why is it that you have started at our health agencies to reduce the amount of thimerosal in vaccines? As a precautionary measure?
Unknown Speaker:
As a precautionary measure.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
As a precautionary measure. That would lead one to believe that you're not really sure whether or not thimerosal causes some problems. Otherwise why wouldn't you just leave it in there and say, hey, we've run all these tests, there's no causal link whatsoever.
Unknown Speaker:
There is a theoretical risk.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Okay. So there is a theoretical risk. Then why have we not recalled the vaccines that have thimerosal in them right now while you're testing this? If there's any question whatsoever about what we're putting into our kids arms, and their bodies, and if you're reducing thimerosal because you think there may be a causal link as a precautionary measure, why don't you recall the thimerosal that is in doctor's offices that are being injected into kids as we speak until you are sure? Because obviously you are not sure or you wouldn't be taking it out in anyway. Why don't you recall it?
Unknown Speaker:
I can give you my comments, the FDA may wish to weigh in on this issue of recall. But as succinctly as I can put it, Mr. Chairman, being safe means being safe from disease as well (technical difficulty).
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Let me ask you this question then. Can you create a measles vaccine, and do we have a measles vaccine, does it not have thimerosal in it?
Unknown Speaker:
Yes, that is correct.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Can we create a mumps vaccine that does not have thimerosal in it?
Unknown Speaker:
That is correct.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Then why are you putting thimerosal in it?
Unknown Speaker:
At the present time, as Dr. Midthun and Dr. Boyle mentioned, we have a made very good progress. And I can say to you that we are not putting in thimerosal any longer in the vaccines that are being produced.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
So, if you are not, if you're not as a precautionary measure, then why are you leaving vaccines on doctor's shelves and in drugstores around this country that are being used in facilities where they supply them, are being used if you are not putting them in new vaccines? If you have, as a precautionary measure, why don't you recall the supply you have out there until you are absolutely sure beyond any doubt that thimerosal has a causal link to autism? Why don't you recall it? Dr. Midthun.
Dr. Karen Midthun:
(indiscernible) public health service act, in order to make a mandatory recall of vaccine, there has to be an imminent and substantial hazard to the public health. And as the weight of the evidence does not support a causal link between thimerosal --
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Then why are you taking it out of the new ones?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
As Dr. Bernier said, it is as a precautionary measure. It's recognized that mercury, in large doses, is toxic. And any way we have of reducing the exposure to mercury over which we have control is something that is desirable to do.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Let me tell you, my grandson was very healthy, and very normal, and spoke, and ran around like every other child. He got (technical difficulty) the allowable amount of mercury through thimerosal in one day, and 10 days later we lost him. We're trying to get him back. Now there's a lot of parents out there that are getting all these shots when their children's immune systems are depressed, they've got colds and they're getting these shots with several of them at a time with thimerosal in them. And as a precautionary measure, if you think there may be a causal link, don't you have any latitude whatsoever
to recall those and say, we are not going to destroy this, but we are going to hold these supplies in advance until we know for sure, until all the tests have been done?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
Not under the public health service act, that is not what would allow us to make a mandatory recall.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
But you are taking thimerosal out of vaccines as a precautionary measure?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
That is correct.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
How long are these studies going to take, Dr. Rennert?
Mr. Owen Rennert:
We hope to have answers of various phases within the next two to three years.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Do you know how many kids are going to be vaccinated today? Do you know that in California there used to be one child every six hours was becoming autistic? It is now one every three hours. In the United States 1 out of 400 to 500 kids are autistic, and in some parts of the country that is under 200, and that boys have a four times more prevalence of getting autism than girls. So if you go to Oregon, 1 out of 190 kids are autistic, that means 1 out of 50 boys being born are going to be autistic. And you are telling me these studies are going to take two to three years, and at the same time the studies are going to take two to three years you are going to keep mercury in vaccines, and you just saw from that Calgary, Canada study what mercury does to brain cells? I mean, come on. If there is any doubt whatsoever, and you say it's a precautionary measure you are taking, then why in the heck don't you get that stuff off the market until you've tested it thoroughly? And if it is going to take three years, put it someplace for three years in a storage box. And if the tests don't prove out, you've still got it. And the pharmaceutical companies can still get their money. Now, on these tests that you are doing, you said you are testing the blood for mercury. Are you testing hair and urine samples?
Mr. Owen Rennert:
Yes. In the studies that were done by Navy and the University of Rochester, there are samples that have been obtained for studies of hair and urine concentrations as well.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Have you had any results from that yet?
Mr. Owen Rennert:
No, sir. The study, as far as I know, has just been completed and the analysis is occurring. I don't have the data.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
How long will it take to get that analysis?
Mr. Owen Rennert:
I would imagine -- to be honest, sir, I don't know. I don't think it will be long, but I will attempt to find out and give you that answer.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
We would like to have copies of the analysis as quickly as you get them. We would like to have any records you have whatsoever about the analyzing of blood, hair, urine, whatever it is regarding mercury and thimerosal in these kids. You know, you were talking about how vaccines have reduced measles, mumps, rubella, diphtheria, all these other things and that is great. And we really appreciate what vaccines and pharmaceutical companies have done for this country. Because they have saved a lot of lives. And what you have done has been very laudable. But when you have a child who is autistic, from
the time he becomes autistic until he dies, they estimate that the cost to our society is $5 million for each child. Now, if we have 1 in 400, and the cases are rising at a very rapid rate, do you have any idea what that is going to do to our economy? Not now, but 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now. And so, every precaution that should be taken, must be taken, and must be taken now, because this is not only a health issue, it's an economic issue that is not going to go away. I mean we are talking about trillions and trillions of dollars if we don't find an answer. And if you have got substances, aluminum, formaldehyde, mercury, in these vaccines, and you have this huge rise and you are not absolutely sure that mercury is not causing it, you ought to get it out of there. You ought to recall this stuff, because a doctor just said. Dr. Bernier just said that they are producing and can produce vaccines without mercury in them, without thimerosal. Now, granted, you might not be able to put three or four different vaccines in one vial, because an I understand it you put the mercury in there to keep everything pure so that they can be used and it won't be tainted. But if you can go to single vials with single vaccines, sure the parents would have to have more shots, but if it is going to be safer then why not do it? And why wait three years for studies? If you think that there may, even the most remote possibility be a causal link. And if you look at some of these studies like we've seen, and I am not a scientist, I am not a doctor. I am just a grandfather who has an autistic kid, and I didn't even know what autism was until a couple years ago. But when you see the huge number of people that are contacting us through e-mail and through conferences, there is one going on right here, you have got to take the proper precautions. You can't say, let's wait three years and let this go on. So, as I said earlier, and I am going to yield to my colleagues here, as I said earlier, we have 113 members in the autism caucus. They will be supplied with every bit of information we get, not only from you folks, but from Calgary, Canada and around the world and from the experts we have here. And I will be taking special orders on the floor of the House. I will be going down there on a regular basis, reading into the record and talking to the American people about the problems that we have. And so, the pressure that you are feeling if any now, I don't know if you are or not, but the pressure you are feeling right now is going to be magnified as many times as I can make it until our health agencies either come to some conclusion that's scientifically provable, or they get that stuff out of there, in particular thimerosal. And I don't know why if you are coming up with vaccines that don't have these toxic substances in them as I believe they are, I don't understand why you don't recall that stuff, get it off the market -- and FDA, can you do a voluntary recall for manufacturers the same as the rotavirus recall?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
That was not a voluntary recall. The manufacturer, on their own initiative, withdrew their product from the market.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Can you contact the people that manufacture thimerosal? And I know who it is. Can you ask them to recall it temporarily?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
That would be something that would be voluntary on their basis.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
You can't write them a letter and say that because of the concern of thousands and thousands of parents, and because we are in the process of doing research on this, we think it would be prudent to recall thimerosal products until we run all of our tests, which may take as much as three years?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
I am sure that the companies are well aware also of these concerns over autism.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
But you guys can't even write them a letter?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
It is their choice to make a voluntary recall and they know that they have that choice, sir.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
So you are not going to do anything?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
Under the PHS Act we can make a mandatory recall for the reasons that I indicated, and the Company, of course on its own volition can do anything it would like in terms of making the product available or deciding not to distribute it any longer.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
I will yield to my colleagues in one second. I found out yesterday that there is a lawsuit pending, I believe in Mississippi, regarding mercury toxicity and how it has affected children. And if that lawsuit is successful by the people who are bringing the suit, it will probably involve a great deal of money to the pharmaceutical company that produces this product, and other pharmaceutical companies that use it in their vaccines. And I wonder, I just wonder if perhaps one of the reasons why FDA is not pounding these pharmaceutical companies to get this off of the market, especially when you look at this Calgary study about mercury and the toxicity of it, if maybe there is not pressure being exerted by pharmaceutical companies on our health agencies because they are afraid of what might happen in the lawsuit if they do withdraw it from the market. Is there any validity to that kind of thinking?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
I really couldn't say. I do not know, sir.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Okay. Mr. Gilman.
Rep. Gilman:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you for raising these issues. Permit me to request that my opening statement be made a part of the record.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Without objection.
Rep. Gilman:
I do have several questions. I think what the Chairman, Chairman Burton is raising I think is quite pertinent. And I am surprised to hear, Dr. Midthun, that you are reluctant to issue any letter to the manufacturers if there is some concern. You say there is some mandate in the legislation that permits
you to make some of these corrections?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
Under the PHS Act, the FDA can make a mandatory recall if there is an imminent or substantial hazard to the public health. And as I noted before the preponderance of the evidence does not suggest there is a causal relationship between thimerosal containing vaccines and autism. Thus, there is no substantial imminent hazard that would authorize us to make a mandatory recall, sir.
Rep. Gilman:
And yet, you are making a request that thimerosal not be included in the future production of vaccines because of some concern, is that correct?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
As Dr. Bernier noted, wherever it is possible to reduce exposure to mercury, that is a goal we would like to achieve because there are many aspects of exposure that we don't have control over, for example environmental, food intake, and thus it is considered a precautionary (technical difficulty) measure. We can move from multidose vials that require a preservative to single does vials, and that is what we have been doing, and actually have made a substantial achievement toward reaching. As I noted before, currently all vaccines being manufactured for pediatric use under the routine childhood
immunization schedule either contain no thimerosal or only trace amounts.
Rep. Gilman:
And that is based on your recommendations?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
That is based on working collaboratively together with the other public health service agencies and also the manufacturers that it was agreed that this would be an achievable goal and it would be good to reduce the exposure to mercury whenever possible.
Rep. Gilman:
So there is a consensus in the thinking in the medical world that it would be preferable to eliminate that possibility in treating -- in providing vaccines for children? Is that correct?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
It is a toxin and thus it is good to be able to reduce exposure, you can never eliminate exposure, but it is good where you can to be able to reduce it.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
(multiple speakers) Would the gentleman yield? Let me just ask is mercury a
cumulative thing in the body?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
I am not a toxicologist.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
We had one yesterday, and the toxicologist, Mr. Gilman, said that if you get a shot with mercury in it and then you get another one and another one, there is a cumulative effect. And our children are getting 26 shots by the time they go to school. And I might add, did you get a flu shot?
Rep. Gilman:
Yes I did.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
You got thimerosal. You've got mercury in your body from that shot. And Dr. Isold (phonetic), our admiral, I called him about it and he didn't even know it was in there.
Rep. Gilman:
That raises another good question. You have taken some precautionary measures. What have you done with the public so that they are aware of these problems? What is your educational process -- what have you done in the educational process to the consuming public with regard to these concerns
that you have in the medical community?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
Our labeling for our products indicates what is in the product and in the case where there is a preservative it is so stated.
Rep. Gilman:
I am not asking just labeling. I am asking have you undertaken any educational initiatives to the consuming public so they would be aware of these problems?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
We believe that the vaccines are safe and effective including those vaccines that were licensed with thimerosal as a preservative, sir.
Dr. Roger Bernier:
Mr. Gilman, if I might add something, because we've discussed this at CDC in anticipation that we might have this question. And I think one of the things that CDC has done, at least as we generally try to work with the provider community to try to provide information about these matters. And so in the last 22 months, during the time when this episode has been ongoing, there have been repeated publications, for example, in the morbidity and mortality weekly report at CDC, there have been joint statements between the government agencies and the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Academy of Family Physicians. So we have worked to put information in the hands of the providers so that they could address the concerns of the parents. Also, we have had on our website information about these matters. We have a hot line where parents can obtain information. So, I wouldn't want to leave the impression that we haven't been proactive, if you will, about putting information out there. Because I think we have been.
Rep. Gilman:
You're saying you are putting it in the hands of the providers. But what about the consuming public? What are you doing -- you are a government agency, what are you doing about educating the public about these dangers? What has been done by your agency or any of the panelists who are here representing our government agencies? What has been done to make the consuming public aware of these mercury problems?
Dr. Roger Bernier:
Like I said, at least speaking for CDC, traditionally we make, we work through the providers to address the concerns of the parents.
Rep. Gilman:
You don't go beyond the provider? If the provider fails to make the information available, are you satisfied?
Dr. Roger Bernier:
Well, we have also the vaccine information statements that parents are given prior to vaccination. And that is one direct connection we have with the parents at the time of vaccination.
Rep. Gilman:
Are these statements that your agency makes for the parents?
Dr. Roger Bernier
Are they what, sir?
Rep. Gilman:
Are these statements that you make available to the parents?
Dr. Roger Bernier:
Yes.
Rep. Gilman:
How is that distributed?
Dr. Roger Bernier:
These are widely available, required by law to be made available, (technical difficulty) children are immunized before every immunization vaccine --
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
If the gentleman would yield. Let me just and then we'll get to Dr.Weldon. Mr. Gilman, do you ever use nasal spray?
Rep. Gilman:
No.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Does your wife or any of your friends ever use nasal sprays?
Rep. Gilman:
My wife does.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Do you know that most nasal sprays have thimerosal in them?
Rep. Gilman:
I didn't know that.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Yeah. There's mercury in a great many product that we use as adults. And there is a tremendous rise in the number of cases of Alzheimer's. And mercury has a debilitating impact on the brain, as you saw, you probably didn't see it in that Calgary study. And so it is not only the children that are being affected by this, in my opinion, and I am not a scientist, it is all of us. Because we are getting mercury through the environment, but we are getting them in nasal sprays -- and health agencies, not too long ago, took mercury out of all topical dressings because they said it would leach into the skin and cause problems. And yet it is in nasal sprays, it is in a lot of products we use (technical difficulty)
Rep. Gilman:
Mr. Chairman, if I might reclaim my time. It would seem to me there is a responsibility by our agencies, whether it be NIH, whether it be CDC, whatever agency is involved in regulating our vaccines, that we make more information available to the public of the dangers of mercury. And make it available, not only just to a potential user of the vaccine, but to the entire public. So I'm urging those panelists who are here today to address that problem, since it is a problem that can affect millions and millions of our population. Just one other question, Mr. Chairman. Parents are becoming concerned about the vaccines that are already on the market that have not been recalled. But many are unaware of what is being done (technical difficulty) preventative actions are your concerns because you have directed the manufacturers to take some steps to remove this product. But what have you done with the product that is still on the shelves around the country?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
It remains on the shelves, sir.
Rep. Gilman:
And could be used.
Dr. Karen Midthun:
And could be used, that is correct.
Rep. Gilman:
Shouldn't you have some responsibility to remove that if you are concerned about its use?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
Again, as I mentioned, there are certain conditions that allow us to make a mandatory recall, and that is not one of them. You have to have an imminent or substantial hazard to the public health -- (multiple speakers)
Rep. Gilman:
Are you concerned that if some of these products are used they could cause some problems in the health of young people?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
The evidence does not show that there is a causal relationship between thimerosal as used in vaccines (technical difficulty).
Rep. Gilman:
And yet you recommended that -- (technical difficulty)
Dr. Karen Midthun:
That's correct, because if we can decrease exposure to mercury in ways that are available to us --
Rep. Gilman:
But if you are concerned about the increase in exposure, then why not take these products and take them off the shelf, prevent their distribution if you really are sincerely concerned about the use of these products? It would seem to me there is an absence of responsibility here by your agencies.
Dr. Karen Midthun:
Well, we have to follow the regulations as they are written, sir.
Dr. Roger Bernier:
Mr. Gilman, could I add -- I want to, I think, try to correct an impression that I think is being generated here. And that is that if the vaccine is not being recalled, then nothing is happening. And I think nothing could be further from the truth. Please allow me to just take a minute to explain what has changed between (technical difficulty) and I think the impression is getting, well, if we don't accomplish a recall, then somehow this problem is not being addressed. And I think there are two or three things I'd like to point out.
Rep. Gilman:
Doctor, if I might interrupt. When you have faulty tires on vehicles, we demand that they be recalled. If we have a medication that is on the shelf that could create some problem, it would seem to me there is enough evidence, even though it is not fully explored, that there is enough evidence available that these products should not be allowed to go out to the consuming public.
Dr. Roger Bernier:
Mr. Gilman, we have no faulty vaccines on the shelves.
Rep. Gilman:
You already testified before us, at least Dr. Midthune has testified that as a preventive measure you are recommending to the producer not to use this product. It would seem to me that that is enough evidence to take the rest of the product off the shelf.
Dr. Karen Midthun:
We have not recommended that a product not be used. We have worked with manufactures to reduce the use of thimerosal as a preservative in vaccines.
Rep. Gilman:
And you have done that because you have concern about the future health of young people, isn't that correct?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
We have concerns about overall exposure to mercury from all sources in the environment, and this happens to be a source we can control by switching to single dose vials in large part.
Rep. Gilman:
And these other products that are still on the shelf could contribute to their health -- to their poor state of health, is that right?
Dr. Karen Midthun:
We do not believe the products out there -- we believe that they are safe products, sir.
Rep. Gilman:
No further questions.
Rep. Burton, Chairman:
Dr. Weldon.
Rep. Weldon:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank all the witnesses for testifying. I certainly thank your efforts to try to answer and address the issues and concerns we have. Dr. Rennert, you testified, I believe, that the total spending at NIH will be $52 million on autism related research?
Mr. Owen Rennert:
I believe that's right.
Rep. Weldon:
Correct me if I'm wrong, that is including a lot of autism related research, but the actual figure on autism specific research is smaller than that, is that correct?
Mr. Owen Rennert:
I can't tell you that for sure. I will tell you that the list we submitted is correct. We will go back and review and provide you with the information.
Rep. Weldon:
I would like you to personally provide that to me because I have had people come to me and say the net was cast pretty wide to come up with a figure that high, and that the figure for autism specific research is actually about a third or less of that. And the reason I bring that up is, I had my staff pull a congressional research study on AIDS. And the figures that were provided to me from CRS is that there are 300,000 Americans currently suffering with AIDS, and 115,000 living with HIV. Now I realize some people estimate that those figures are quite a bit higher, and that there is a substantial cohort in the population who have exposure to HIV, they are carrying HIV and they don't know it. But if we use those figures, and t
